About 4 years ago I decided to give LED grow lights a chance and started reading up on the tech. At that time there were only a few people having great results and most of them were keeping corals in Salt water tanks which I do as well. As their success was making strides I decided it was time to give a LED grow lights a chance. I started small and ordered my first light that was made by Pro Source. When it arrived I was pretty surprised at just how bright it was. At the time I was doing a lot of testing for an elite group of breeders and had what I call a "pre flower" area. It was a small tent that held 8 @ 2 gallon buckets and unsexed only plants would go in there for about 2 or so weeks until they would sex and move to the flower room. I noticed right away that the typical stretch you see with HPS or MH lighting was almost non existent. At sexing I would move the plants to the main flower area and back then plants would go under 2000 watts of HPS and boom the stretch was on. I'll also mention at that time seedlings, clones and anything else being vegged was under a Tek 4x2 8 bulb HO T5 fixture and while it did a pretty nice job of keeping node spacing tight, the heat was a little much.

I decided it was time to take a look at LED for vegging. People were having decent results with the Blackstar series lights and they had just come out with a Veg light. I knew people were also flowering plants but yield was way down so for now I was only concerned with vegging and sexing.

Node spacing was immediately shortened and plants I had grown for several years suddenly looked different. Much tighter structure, and the stems seemed to increase in volume. I was now on a mission and knew there had to be something to this new tech people were missing as the complaint department far outweighed the people who were stoked with their Very Expensive LED fixtures.

Without going in to too much detail, I started contacting contacting some of the top LED manufactures in the country. I also took a couple of business trips to meet with a few of them and quickly realized that 95% of them [at that time] were using Chinese companies to build there lights. Word on the street at that time was to Stay away from Chinese built LED grow lights. This didn't make any sense to me at all and not believing half the crap I read online I decided to contact one of the largest Chinese companies LED builders in the world.

That would be the beginning of a great relationship that continues today. I decided to take my knowledge of Saltwater LED's and current day Plant grow lights and come up with my own design based on what I knew. I'd say it was a stab in the dark, but I had the stock design this company was producing and felt I could improve on their design. I came up with what I use today. That was just a little over two years ago, and I have not looked back since.

In the past two years I have done a lot of changing in other areas of my testing facility. Food has had to change, medium has changed. LED's produce about 4 times the useable light to plants, so using the same food I did for HID lighting was burning the plants. It wasn't until I met with General Hydroponics up in Detroit two years ago that I had really any idea WTF was going on. Food was cut to about 70% of what I had done and has stuck there pretty much since.

In the last couple of years I have tested many strains under this new tech in all total somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 strains, all fully documented at another spot.

This thread is a collection of many of these strains and although not labeled in many cases, I know my plants pretty well and can tell you if one was to have a question.

At this point I can reach about 1.7GPW on average, and in some cases 3GPW.

Thanks for looking, and I hope you enjoy the show.

Nice Pics.

so ..very interesting..love the work you do looks insane..
What kinda wattage would you suggest in a 4x4 veg room..
I was /am looking to improve my veg area .
Being a dinosaur... my thoughts was put a 400 hid instead of th T5 used currently
I ordered new bulbs for that fixture but more see it for seedlings and cuttings honestly.
Last and maybe the biggest question is are the LED currently available close to what you use or is some minor to major mods required to really enjoy the benefits that you are from these LED.?
Thanks again for sharing...always stoked to be able to look in on others work..

Sunfinc - personaly in terms of veg lights i think most would say stay with the T5s, they put out the same lum, with less heat and less energy consumption, in a small 4x4 room the MH would drive the temps way way higher then the T5s do. i personally never went with MH for veg, i went right for the T5s since they are a fraction of the cost, bulbs are a franction the cost to replace, the t5s are a fraction of the cost to run 24hrs a day, and well the heat is hella lower with T5s, i believe it was THG who sold me on the T5s after her saying shes used and since gotten rid of a large handful of MH lights and replaced with T5s. just my thoughts, alothough i have grown plants from seed to harvest with LEDs and with T5/HPS. honestly i prefer the T5s and HPS since they are much cheaper then LEDs and knowing that the off the shelf models arnt quite up to par as compaired to lets say PJs custom models, i just dont see the benefit of paying an assload of cash for a fixture thats truely not compleatly fine tuned for MJ like PJs are... just like the medical strides states are making and how fast they are making these awesome changes involving MJ, so to is the LED industry, constantly improving their tech, but all in all i cant see myself shelling out that kinda cash for a badass fixture if its not the best it can be, id want PJs specs and currently those arnt on the shelf for everyone to buy... untill then ill stick with what i got since im getting awesome results...

BTW PJ its great to see you around the MC community. its a damn good thing to have such a knowledgeable grower and a god in the LED world in our company. as always GREAT lookin plants there buddy, you have some true skill there, a very dank green thumb lol...

Looks GREAT PJ! I am surprised that you had to cut down your feed, I would think the opposite. I would think that more useable light would actually increase your feeding regimen.
For example, when I switched to Digital HID, I gained in lumens, and in turn I had to increase the feed due to more aggressive growth. Mind you, I do elevate the CO2 in the rooms, so that is definitely a huge factor. Running CO2, the plants really eat.
What size grow area are you using and how many watts to cover that area sir?

http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Sol-4-200W-4...ht-P159C59.aspx

This light has struck my attn...
was wondering if you knew or had used this model or maker before?
Can i run these straight outta my same timer box as HID if i buy the 220 cords? seems like ?
thanks for any thoughts on the matter

PJ,

I've been using a California Light Works (CLW) 200-watt VegMaster for vegging, and I really like it.

For a full-cycle seed-to-harvest LED, I'm considering the California Light Works 440-watt SolarStorm. It even has T8 UVB bulbs for added help during flowering.

http://californialightworks.com/product/solar-storm-440/

I have a standing offer from CLW to enter their Buyer Feedback program, which would give me the light for half-price just for trying it for 90 days. At the end of 90 days, I can keep the light for half price, or return it for a full refund. I'm thinking of giving it a try. The only catch is I have to do a detailed grow journal on their web site.

Do you have an opinion of the CLW products? Or a different recommendation?

.

PJ

Could you describe the symptoms of the burn your plants experienced from LED induced over-feeding?

As a first-time LED grower -and- a first-time grower period, I'm at a double disadvantage.
Many (LED) threads refer back to standards I don't have/know (yet!) IE "traditional feeding #'s" or "looks very similar to normal nute-burn"

also

I know I've seen, somewhere, a "chart" of suggested watt per square foot (w/ft2) for: Unacceptable, Average and Above Average yield.
Do you know of that "chart" or have any rule-of-thumb #'s you grow by?





I'm using a Sol2 (200w) and a Sol1 (100w) in a small cabinet (20" x 25" x 68"high)
Based off HG's "Input Current" of 1.7A @ 110v and .58A @ 110v for the Sol2 and 1 respectively I'm at 80w/ft2
I've ramped-up from 450ppm to 750ppm over the 35 days she's been in flower and keep the lights 12"-14" from the canopy
She's swimming in a 5gal tote, DWC grow method
BS-1 is just some Bag-Seed from an oh-high-oh (100 buck) zip schwag bag


.

Put in 15 hrs on a new theater room for a buddy today so I am burnt. I'll get back to all of you when I have a bit more energy.
:)

Thanks for all the replies!

PJ

??

is that a tad rusty on the edge there? leaf charts...ill go look

Quote: surfinc wrote in post #4

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so ..very interesting..love the work you do looks insane..
What kinda wattage would you suggest in a 4x4 veg room..



Last and maybe the biggest question is are the LED currently available close to what you use or is some minor to major mods required to really enjoy the benefits that you are from these LED.?

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Quote: NorCalHal wrote in post #6

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Looks GREAT PJ! I am surprised that you had to cut down your feed, I would think the opposite. I would think that more useable light would actually increase your feeding regimen.

For example, when I switched to Digital HID, I gained in lumens, and in turn I had to increase the feed due to more aggressive growth. Mind you, I do elevate the CO2 in the rooms, so that is definitely a huge factor. Running CO2, the plants really eat.

What size grow area are you using and how many watts to cover that area sir?

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Quote: surfinc wrote in post #7

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http://www.hydrogrowled.com/Sol-4-200W-400W-LED-Grow-Light-P159C59.aspx

This light has struck my attn...
was wondering if you knew or had used this model or maker before?

Can i run these straight outta my same timer box as HID if i buy the 220 cords? seems like ?
thanks for any thoughts on the matter

---

Quote: JackRyan420 wrote in post #8

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PJ,

I've been using a California Light Works (CLW) 200-watt VegMaster for vegging, and I really like it.

For a full-cycle seed-to-harvest LED, I'm considering the California Light Works 440-watt SolarStorm. It even has T8 UVB bulbs for added help during flowering.

http://californialightworks.com/product/solar-storm-440/

I have a standing offer from CLW to enter their Buyer Feedback program, which would give me the light for half-price just for trying it for 90 days. At the end of 90 days, I can keep the light for half price, or return it for a full refund. I'm thinking of giving it a try. The only catch is I have to do a detailed grow journal on their web site.

Do you have an opinion of the CLW products? Or a different recommendation?

---

Quote: Justa420Friend wrote in post #9

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.

PJ

Could you describe the symptoms of the burn your plants experienced from LED induced over-feeding?

As a first-time LED grower -and- a first-time grower period, I'm at a double disadvantage.
Many (LED) threads refer back to standards I don't have/know (yet!) IE "traditional feeding #'s" or "looks very similar to normal nute-burn"

also

I know I've seen, somewhere, a "chart" of suggested watt per square foot (w/ft2) for: Unacceptable, Average and Above Average yield.
Do you know of that "chart" or have any rule-of-thumb #'s you grow by?


I'm using a Sol2 (200w) and a Sol1 (100w) in a small cabinet (20" x 25" x 68"high)
Based off HG's "Input Current" of 1.7A @ 110v and .58A @ 110v for the Sol2 and 1 respectively I'm at 80w/ft2
I've ramped-up from 450ppm to 750ppm over the 35 days she's been in flower and keep the lights 12"-14" from the canopy
She's swimming in a 5gal tote, DWC grow method
BS-1 is just some Bag-Seed from an oh-high-oh (100 buck) zip schwag bag

---

Was updating a journal I am running on a new strain from my buddy Incognyto called "Matriarch" which is C99 x Pestilence. This is a first run on a seed plant that went 11 weeks. Finished one of her sisters a couple weeks ago and hope to try her in the next couple of weeks.

She did quite well.

Quote: Justa420Friend wrote in post #11

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??

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.

thank you. I've started having my Ph swing drop rather than raise (new to me) :
starting @ 5.5 and dropping = cal/mag lock-out. If this pattern continues, I'll start starting @ 5.8 or 5.9

sigh, I swore I would NOT become a "help the n00b with his screw-up" thread hijacker

thanks

Quote: Justa420Friend wrote in post #16

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.

thank you. I've started having my Ph swing drop rather than raise (new to me) :
starting @ 5.5 and dropping = cal/mag lock-out. If this pattern continues, I'll start starting @ 5.8 or 5.9

sigh, I swore I would NOT become a "help the n00b with his screw-up" thread hijacker

thanks

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I top off @ 3-5 days and have swings (starting) from 5.5 (drifting) to 6.3 @ worst (always drifted UP)
I always had ppm drift UP parallel with Ph (worst was 1300ppm after 5 days)
only new nute was GH kool bloom (if I think about it, the downward PH swings probably started happening after that change)
when I topped-off I used 5.5 water (target #) I do a full drain and start new every 10-15 days

keep the kool bloom in the mix and learn the new drift patern or skip the new-nute ??
(nute: GH's flora 3 part @ bloom mix, Floralicious+, FloraNectar, KoolBloom ... Ph 5.5 , ppm: XXX)

Quote: Justa420Friend wrote in post #19

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I top off @ 3-5 days and have swings (starting) from 5.5 (drifting) to 6.3 @ worst (always drifted UP)
I always had ppm drift UP parallel with Ph (worst was 1300ppm after 5 days)
only new nute was GH kool bloom (if I think about it, the downward PH swings probably started happening after that change)
when I topped-off I used 5.5 water (target #) I do a full drain and start new every 10-15 days

keep the kool bloom in the mix and learn the new drift patern or skip the new-nute ??
(nute: GH's flora 3 part @ bloom mix, Floralicious+, FloraNectar, KoolBloom ... Ph 5.5 , ppm: XXX)

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Zitat

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When you say it id dropping, does that happen after say the first 3 days? The reason I ask is that is about what I see which is pretty normal.

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yes
the swing from 5.5 to 4.8 happened over a 5 day period (the longest I go between top-offs or a drain/restart)
I did not take readings during those days

In the past, those 5 days would swing UP to (as high as) 6.3
dropping DOWN to 4.8 was a BIG surprise; same swing but in the opposite direction!

as long as I know which direction its going to go, I think I can deal with it
going UP = start @ 5.5 drift to 6
going DOWN = start @ 6 drift to 5.5
and take Ph readings more frequently

.

I would also add topping off more frequently and feel there is a good chance that is your issue. For instance I feed 2 times a day 12 hrs apart. 6 hrs after I feed I top off, mind you it is all automatic so I don't have to do it myself, but think you'll end up with a more accurate reading and a more stable condition.

I'd also still drop that food by 10 or so percent. Keep us posted!

Best of luck and hope that helps.

How many plants would you flower in a 4x4 area under LED's?
I am trying to get a sense of what a 4x4 area would produce with LED tech.

Quote: NorCalHal wrote in post #23

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How many plants would you flower in a 4x4 area under LED's?
I am trying to get a sense of what a 4x4 area would produce with LED tech.

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